1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

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Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by Jerry Alexander » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:03 am

I have been told that the engine in the Model 22 Metz,1915 vintage, is very similar to the Ford Model T engine. True? If so, is it reasonable to assume that parts available for the Model T will work on the Metz engine? My engine is missing a lot. Possibly I have the needle valve too rich(?). Any suggestions? Possibly need new spark plugs (Model T plug work?).

Also, how much adjustment can one make to the 'drive train' on the Metz to insure better traction. I get a lot of slippage

jeff deringer
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: Camas, Wa

Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by jeff deringer » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:59 am

Jerry Alexander wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:03 am
I have been told that the engine in the Model 22 Metz,1915 vintage, is very similar to the Ford Model T engine. True? If so, is it reasonable to assume that parts available for the Model T will work on the Metz engine? My engine is missing a lot. Possibly I have the needle valve too rich(?). Any suggestions? Possibly need new spark plugs (Model T plug work?).

Also, how much adjustment can one make to the 'drive train' on the Metz to insure better traction. I get a lot of slippage
Hmmm...there are lots of questions there. You might have better luck on the Metz site. https://metzauto.wordpress.com/
My advice is to be more specific. You say your engine is missing a lot, but maybe you have the needle valve too rich? How is it running if it is missing a lot. I would list what it is missing. Spark plugs should be pretty easy. List what make and number are in it now for starters.

As far as the drive train, is the clutch slipping? What kind of clutch is it, a cone clutch? If it's something besides the clutch I think you have major issues. You should furnish more information.

Good luck.

Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by Jerry Alexander » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:09 pm

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

There is no clutch. The Metz is a friction drive vehicle. There is a metal plate attached to the rear of the 22 Hp engine that interacts with a pulley which is attached to the "drive train" of this vehicle. Drive Train: A pulley is on a shaft that is attached to two chains, one for each rear wheel. The pulley is activated when the driver presses on a peddle in the cab that deflects the metal disc which is spinning from the rear of the engine. The placement of the pulley on the disc serves as the gears, if you will, to drive the car either forward or in reverse. That is the best I can explain it.

Charles Metz, hired two engineers from the Ford Motor Company to help design the engine for the Metz automobile. Thus the relationship of the Metz engine's similarity to Ford's Model T engine. (So I have been told.) The missing, back firing of my Metz engine is a new development. I am not a mechanic and am only guessing what the problem may be. Most likely I am totally off base. Thus searching for answers/possibilities and guidance from more experienced and talented people. I will visit the Metz Forum, as you suggest to seek information and guidance too.

Again, thank you.

Jerry Alexander

jeff deringer
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: Camas, Wa

Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by jeff deringer » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:57 pm

No need for further explanation, although yours was very good. All you had to say was friction drive. I don't have any cars with them, but there has been discussion here from Cartercar and other makes owners about relining the drive wheel with various materials. Hopefully one of them will chime in here. Once you went in to a little detail it was much easier to figure out what you were asking. In fact when you described your engine possibly using parts from a T engine because it was "missing a lot" I took it to mean it was as yet unrestored, and in fact, missing certain unnamed parts, not missing while running. Good luck.

Bharper
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Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: Keene, NH

Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by Bharper » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:08 pm

Hi Jerry,

I don't visit this site as often as I should and only now have I found your questions regarding your Metz.

Regarding slippage of the friction drive; I have found that proper clearance between the driving disk (the aluminum disk attached to the engine) and the friction wheel (it slides on the jackshaft) is of paramount importance for successful operation with a minimum of slippage. That clearance ought to be .030" , that is thirty thousands of an inch.

I am in the habit of cleaning the driving disk every now and then. I will spray brake cleaner on the disk and wipe down with a paper towel. You may be surprised how much crud/dirt comes off what looks like a clean surface. KEEP THE SPRAY OFF THE FRICTION WHEEL.
Also, the surface of the friction wheel may become slightly "glazed" over time and miles. A few minutes with a piece of medium grit sandpaper can clean up the surface. Be mindful to not spend too much time with too much pressure in any one area as you do NOT want to create flat spots.

The Friction Drive Transmission, and Metz cars in particular, have received a bum rap, a bad reputation, for decades. I do not feel that it is warranted. I suspect that the disappointment in Metz cars arose during the early days of the antique auto hobby, back in the 1950s, when people were pulling these little cars out of barns and putting them back on the road. They were worn out, no one knew how to correctly adjust them, and proper operation of the pressure pedal is not intuitive. I really think that folks just got frustrated and judged the Metz to be a miserable car and not worth consideration as a car to tour with. This resulted in the surviving cars ending up as static displays in museums everywhere.

I am striving to make my 1914 Model 22 a dependable tour car. It starts well and runs nicely, although I do concede that it is an acquired taste, it's not for everybody.

The attached picture was taken at the annual Metz Weekend in front of the Waltham Museum. I drove my car to Waltham, Massachusetts from my home in Keene, New Hampshire. The round trip was about 150 miles.


0713191443.jpg

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MochetVelo
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Location: Pennsylvania

Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by MochetVelo » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:31 pm

Jerry, you've no doubt discovered that Metz used the long-reach 1/2" pipe thread plugs like the Champion 32. A Model T Ford plug (like the Champion X) will fit, but it is not long enough. These long-reach plugs were also used on stationary engines. They are no longer made, but they do turn up if you search eBay and flea markets. I don't know why your engine misses, but it would not be a problem peculiar to Metz. It should be diagnosed as with any engine. Model T parts do fit the Metz engine, but adaptions often are needed. The head gaskets fit, but one of the center holes needs enlargement. The pistons also fit, but the piston pins are different and require some machine work to adapt for the Metz. The Metz engine is quite good in design and construction. They often continued use on sawmills after the cars rusted away.

Phil

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cudaman
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Re: 1915 Metz Model 22 - Engine

Post by cudaman » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:39 am

If the friction material on your drive pulley doesn't respond to the treatments mentioned above, or if it is just plain worn away, you can get the friction material replaced by the same company that made it originally, Paper Pulleys:

http://www.paperpulleys.com/pages/home.html

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