1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

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cudaman
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1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:23 pm

I purchased the 1912 Flanders 20 from Dragone Motors and have been working on it for a month now. If there's interest, I will post photos here occasionally to document the process. My intent is to leave the paint and body alone, install the correct components and accessories, and get the car running on its original Splitdorf low tension magneto and coil box setup. The engine turns freely, has good compression, and the clutch seems to work. I have not tried to run the car yet (it was set up to run with a 6V storage battery and modern coil when I got it). Here are some photos of its arrival from the shipper. The windshield and associated brackets came with the car, it is currently boxed up, along with a tail light and Prestolite tank.
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F12MAC
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by F12MAC » Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:53 pm

Always interested,fire away cheers pete

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:18 am

Thanks, here are a few more pics. Thanks to a few helpful members, I was able to obtain a set of correct E&J sidelights and tail light. I also obtained an E&J acetylene generator for the headlights. I personally prefer the look of a generator vs. the Prestolite tank. The top on the car is original and in acceptable shape. The upholstery looks presentable for display, but is too brittle for use, so I've removed it and sent it off to Elizabeth at Class-it-Up as patterns to have new covers made in mildly "distressed" looking vinyl.
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:01 am

Hello Cudaman,
Looks a very nice automobile from which to improve and make run as was original. Show us some under the hood pictures and also what you intend to do for ignition. Do you have all the pieces, mag. switch and etc.? Do you know history on the car or even the extent and when restoration took place?
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:54 pm

I was told that the car had been in storage for 40 years prior to being acquired by Dragone. The number on the engine says it was built in June 1912. It has a Rayfield carburetor with an intake adapter on it instead of the original Flanders carburetor.

The car has its original Splitdorf Model D low tension magneto and a (possibly later) Splitdorf Model TS high tension transformer/switch combination in the dash. The TS transformer must not have been working, because it was only being used as a switch to send battery voltage to the primary side of a modern 6V coil. The primary circuit was being interrupted by the magneto points and the high tension current from the modern coil was being sent back to the magneto distributor for distribution to the spark plugs. This makes me think that I might be able to get the magneto working with a good transformer box and a magnet recharge.

I have obtained an original Splitdorf box type transformer/switch unit and sent it off to R.V. Anderson to have it rebuilt. My intent is to wire the magneto and transformer box per the factory diagram, with the 6V storage battery connected to the transformer box battery terminals. I'll start it on battery, then switch to magneto and see if it will stay running. If it dies on magneto with the rebuilt transformer box, then perhaps the magneto magnets will need to be recharged. I could just run the car on the storage battery, but I would really like to get the magneto side of the dual ignition working.
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:58 am

How long did you say this automobile was laid up and not running? I think you have a great approach to this Flanders. How does this automobile relate and compare to an EMF?
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:11 am

The folks at Dragone told me it had been in storage for 40 years before they got it.

The Flanders 20 car was manufactured by EMF, it was intended to be a low price direct competitor to the Model T Ford. The car was named after a former Ford employee, Walter Flanders, the "F" in EMF. The other two founders were Barney Everitt and William Metzger. The other EMF product at the time was a well regarded mid price car, the EMF 30.

EMF did not have an established dealer network, so they made an arrangement with Studebaker to market half of their cars through Studebaker dealerships. The remainder were sold through local independent dealers. The relationship between EMF and Studebaker was tempestuous, Studebaker eventually buying EMF using borrowed money, putting Studebaker deeply in debt. By 1913 all cars manufactured by EMF were rebadged as Studebakers.

There is an interesting book that covers the story of EMF and its founders:



There is a website for EMF and Flanders enthusiasts:

http://emfauto.org/index.php

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Fri Jan 08, 2021 3:38 am

Right how I have the floor boards and upholstery out of the car. The current floor boards are all broken and chopped up, so I'll be making new floor boards. The original upholstery looked OK for museum display, but was too brittle to withstand any use. I have sent the old upholstery to Elizabeth at Class-it-Up for use as patterns to make new upholstery out of mildly "distressed" vinyl so that it better matches the patina on the rest of the car.

I really like the cast aluminum brackets that the top's rear curtain attaches to. They allow the top to be removed from the car as an assembly, without having to remove any welting or tacks. The top is in good condition, so it is safely folded and in storage while the rest of the work proceeds on the car. The swatches of blue tape on the body mark where side curtain "common sense" fasteners were placed.
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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:25 am

With the upholstery out, I decided to work on making new floor boards. The old boards were split in several places and chopped up, so I decided to make new ones out of premium 5/8 plywood. I also found the correct mount for the Jones speedometer and mounted it to the dash.
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:13 pm

Nice work, Will your new seat upholstering be black also? I am anxious to see how that all comes together. Did you do the rubber floor mats? That is a nice job! I am curious to see how your top mounts to the brackets you have referred to. If you get a chance, please take a few pictures and share how the top is affixed to the brackets. At this rate you will be driving your automobile soon!
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:16 pm

I have asked Classtique to make the new upholstery out of black "mildly distressed" looking leather so that it harmonizes with the patina on the rest of the car. The floormats came with the car, I didn't have to make them. If anybody has a picture of an original Flanders 20 floor mat, I'd love to see it.

The corners of the top's rear curtain of top have sockets that slip over the "ears" of the cast aluminum brackets on the rear of the body tub. The rear window section rolls up and is attached to the tub and corners of the rear curtain with "common sense" fasteners.
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GZ
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by GZ » Wed Jan 20, 2021 7:13 pm

The Flanders is looking great. Looks like my carbide generator cleaned up nicely. Glad it found a good home! Keep up the good work and keep posting more photos. GZ/Motoringicons

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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:29 am

Have you run this automobile yet? I am curious about the fuel system.
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:45 pm

It will be a while before I try to run the car. The engine does turn freely with good compression. I squirted a little Marvel Mystery oil into each cylinder and spun it over with the crank to keep thing freed up. I want to wire up the ignition per the original design, with the Splitdorf Model D low tension magneto and wood transformer/switch box on the dash. The box is currently getting rebuilt by R.V. Anderson. The magneto appears to be complete, but I won't know how well it works until I start the car on battery and then switch to magneto with it running.

Regarding the fuel system, it is gravity feed from the stock torpedo-style tank in the rear. The tank and sediment bulb appear to be in good shape, but the tank is empty and the fuel line is all mangled. The car is missing its original carburetor and now has a Rayfield carb with an adapter on the original intake manifold. The first two pics show the sediment bulb and the current Rayfield carb, the rest of the pics show what an original Flanders carb should look like (I found these pics on the HCCA forum). If anyone has an original carb they would be willing to part with, I would love to buy it.
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Fri Jan 22, 2021 2:42 pm

How many Flanders 20's did they build in 1912 and then the surrounding years? That would give you an idea of how easy it will be to locate and purchase a correct carb.
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Sat Jan 23, 2021 10:16 am

EMF produced around 30,000 Flanders 20s from 1910 through 1912. I'm not sure whether there were any changes to the carburetor during that time.

I took the lower windshield to the local glass shop yesterday to have the laminated glass replaced, it had cracks in both lower corners. I also took my spare side lamp door to a jewelry repair shop, it needs to have its closing clasp fittings moved so that it will fit on the opposite side of the car. Luckily, the hinge side of the door is identical from side to side. I also gave him my original door (with cracked glass) to use as a guide for making the modifications to the spare door with good glass.

With the floor boards done and the interior out at the upholstery shop, I decided to tackle the cobbled-up fuel system on the Flanders today. The mangled fuel line came out easily enough, but I had to remove the carburetor and intake manifold as a unit, and to get them out, I had to remove the exhaust manifold. Luckily, everything came apart without breaking any bolts. The ports are huge compared to my Model T’s, it’s hard to believe that this thing was rated at the same 20 horsepower.

With the manifolds and carburetor off, I at least have easy access to the magneto and spark plug wires, so I’m going to start looking them over to make sure I have all the parts and things are hooked up correctly (I have a reprint of the original owner’s manual and parts manual showing how everything is supposed to be wired up).
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Sat Jan 23, 2021 3:59 pm

Flanders must have been a very viable automobile to average 10,000 units for each of the years 1910-1911 and 1912. Have you tried the Nash club to see if any of those guys may have a spare carburetor?
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:14 pm

Not sure what happened to the photos in some of my earlier posts, but here is the latest update.

I received an original Flanders 20 carburetor from Daryl Kemerer (thanks Daryl!) and rebuilt it, it fits much better than the Rayfield that someone had installed in the past. I also purchased a section of 2 inch exhaust pipe that matched the shape of my old pipe so that I could eliminate the exhaust cutout.

With those parts in hand, I decided it was time to re-install the manifolds with new gaskets and the old gland rings, then re-wire the car per the original diagram. Once I get the coil box back from R.V. Anderson, I'll install it on the dash and hook up the rest of the wiring.

I also need to fabricate new oil sump drain valves with standpipes since my current ones are pitted and leak like crazy. I also need to verify that the vacuum feed oil reservoir on the side of the engine will operate properly (no vacuum leaks).
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alsfarms
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:22 pm

Nice update! I bet you are anxious to get on with making it run and then sorting out all the inevitable small issue so you can drive it reliably.
D. Kemmerer has lots of early stuff, bless his heart!
Al

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cudaman
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Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:56 am

This update is mainly a test to see if it is still possible to post new material in the old forum.

I finished fabricating new drain valves with stand pipes and installed them yesterday, they seal well. I'm currently waiting for some 1/4-24 bolts and nuts so that I can install the original Flanders carburetor I got from Daryl Kemerer. Once it's installed, I'll fabricate the throttle linkage and plumb a new fuel line. :)

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