Metz- What controls the friction tension?

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Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by Jerry Alexander » Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:24 am

Background:
I have a 1915 Metz Model 22. I have had the pulley rebuilt a few years ago at the Paper Pulley Company in Columbia, TN. That did not totally solve my problem. On the advice from a colleague I changed the distance between the friction plate and the pulley to the width of a hack saw blade. That helped a lot. However the car still does not have the ability to begin to move forward when parked on an incline, which seems to always happen when I have had this car in a parade. It will even refuse to budge when I a parked on grass. A discussion with a representative of the Paper Pulley Company shed some additional light on a possible solution. He suggested that there may not be enough tension from the friction plate to the pulley.

Question:
How is the tension controlled from the friction plate to the pulley? I know that I depress the pedal in the cab to engage the two but what, if anything, can be done to increase the tension when I depress the pedal? If it is a spring, which I suspect, where does one obtain a correct spring? I imagine not just any old/new spring will measure up to the task. There must be some specs. Any and all help will be deeply appreciated.

Conclusion:

I have a fine Metz that I am extremely proud of. I would like to drive it with more confidence in rolling landscapes. Until the incline problem can be cured I can not do so. Again, I thank you for your knowledgeable guidance.

Jerry Alxander

oldholly
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:13 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by oldholly » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:10 pm

Jerry,
Your foot controls the pressure on the drive when starting off. When driving you click the pedal in the ratchet enough to drive the car, when coming to a hill you may have to put more pressure on the pedal with your foot to keep up the momentem. ( over coming the the ratchet position) Release your foot again allowing the pedal back into into the slot - once over the hill. You will soon get the hang of it.

when starting off - push the pedal in hard with minium throttle and the car will move off - and when you get moving release the pedal into the slot. Try having it in a higher gear position as there is less scrubing further out on the driving disc.

I use a rubberised material on the driven wheel with excellent results. Will be going on another five day driving rally in undulating country in our 1914 Metz at the end of the month,

Regards,
Noel holbrook Australia.

Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by Jerry Alexander » Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:34 am

Thanks for the tip and advice. I will follow suit! What is the "rubberized material" you refer to? I would also like to try that.

Again, thanks and happy motoring!

Jerry

oldholly
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:13 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by oldholly » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:48 pm

jerry,
I use three pieces of 1/2" conveyor belting. It has two or three layers of canvas between the rubber sections, the three pieces make the pully one and half inches wide as original. You could contact me for more details.

Regards,
Noel

Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by Jerry Alexander » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:33 am

Do you attach the belting to the cardboard pulley or the metal drive wheel? Plus hat do you use to "attach" the conveyor belt?

I am really appreciative for this information!

BTW, My Metz is in the garage waiting on reconditioning the radiator. :(

Jerry

cartercars
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:02 pm
Location: Lafayette, IN

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by cartercars » Sat Nov 12, 2016 10:27 pm

If you look at your old discs/driven wheels you will see that they are likely layers similar to masonite. You can cut new material out of trailer mud flaps or whatever you wish to try. You can make a sandwich with rubber in the middle and paper on the outside. That being said, I always just used a paper pulley in Cartercars with good result. Do not just set that hack saw blade distance at one location. Set it evenly across the drive wheel. Most severe issues relate to worn or improperly adjusted thrust bearings. Evan those in the engine can be an issue. Another problem that I never had but heard of is height of contact above or below center and differences when turning if the frames twists. For the earlier suggestions on foot pressure , I can confirm and add that a good ear listening to engine speed compared to momentum, might indicate a need for a bit more pressure should it begin to slip. But this pressure is not great, If 'stand on it' kind of pressure is needed, something is wrong. Good luck.

oldholly
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:13 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by oldholly » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:53 pm

Hi Jerry,

Re. My reply to the friction material, I started the reply on the site but some of it disappeared so here it is.
I use three pieces of ½” conveyor belting together, it makes a 1 ½” wide drive.
1 -Cut the inside hole fairly accurate to the pulley and roughly about an inch or less, (3/4’) larger than the pulley OD . The same for the three
2 - now cut each piece from centre to the outside – at about a 45 degree angle with a sharp blade - this allows it to be fitted without dismantling the shaft, as the Metz replacements were
3 – then slide each piece over the shaft , separating the cuts at equal distances and clamp together with the securing ring. And drill the bolt holes, fitting the bolts as you go at opposite positions. Lubricating the drill with water.
4 – re tensioning the bolts –not to tight to deform the rubber.
5 – Now – mount an angle grinder under the car. I just mount on a solid immovable box and move into the pulley and slowly revolve the pulley by hand, grinding off the high spots.
Of course If the shaft is dismantled, it’s a lot easier and if out of the car.

The last step is to adjust the rubber to the Aluminium disc – 1/32” the thickness of plastic credit card.
You could Make a template for it and pre drill with smaller holes before fitting.

Hope this helps,
Noel

Jerry Alexander
Posts: 22
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:44 am

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by Jerry Alexander » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:32 pm

Noel,

I pictured your solution wrong, I guess. I thought you used the rubberized material as an 'overlay' on the surface of the paper pulley. However, if I understand your complete explanation I now interpret your improvement to be taking the pulley apart and adding the rubberized material to become a part of the pulley. Thus widening the surface of the pulley that interacts with the friction plate. Do I have a correct picture?

Jerry

oldholly
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:13 pm
Location: Australia

Re: Metz- What controls the friction tension?

Post by oldholly » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:53 pm

Yes Jerry, your on the right track now

The rubber is pert of the pully, not just stuck on the top. The original material was compressed paper in sheets, not like the hard board sheet. Thr original width was one and a half inches touchining the surface on the large driving disc of aluminium.

regards, Noel

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