1910 Overland restoration

Get help and help others restore and enjoy driving/touring in horseless carriages
Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:00 pm

Howdy Al, just got it home this afternoon, but haven't had time to play with it. Probably tomorrow. From the looks of it, it might be too tall. No snow this year, that was taken about 10 years ago. We're pretty short on moisture this year. The Coupe is a Special Coupe, they were made from July '28 to July '29. Supposedly Henry's favorite. The top material comes all the way down to the belt line. They are a really nice looking car if the top is done correctly. Most I've seen aren't. The Sport Coupe has a soft top and Landau irons.

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:25 am

Good Morning, Have you been able to measure and figure out your geometry and determined a way to establish your float level where it needs to be? Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:43 am

Morning Al, haven't had a chance yet. I'm working on that '29 coupe, and another model A engine that I want to get finished up. I will have some time this afternoon I think, so hopefully I'll have some success. I'll let ya know. By the way, where the heck are the rest of the boys with projects? I'd have figured there'd be a bunch of guys working on things this winter. I hope I'm not the only one having problems! Thanks Al!

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:23 pm

I am always trying to encourage the use of this club forum as a good place to meet, share tips and ask for advice. That helps us all and keeps us moving, hopefully in a positive direction. What was up with the coupe? Did you mention that you thought the height of the new needle was going to be higher than original? Can you rework the seat to get as close a match as possible before you install? Maybe that has already been your endeavor? I know it can be a pain in the neck, some of these frustrating problems, but when you come to a resolution and determine that a GOOD fix has been completed, that is the AH HA moment and you feel like a success. Then just move on to the next issue. Please chronicle your carb. rework with plenty of pictures so we can be with you on the process, that is my tip for the day. I certainly hope and wish others would jump in, not necessarily on your thread but other threads that are relevant to their specific brass car needs. This forum could open a better and more continual dialog on a wide variety of issues that could be benefited by some friendly "Tips" and "Advice" if we would use it!
Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:48 pm

Howdy boys, haven't had the time to work on the carb lately, but I did do some thinking about it yesterday. Looks like I might have to rethink my thinking! I've got the needle ready to go, but I have to hook it up to the float arm, and currently, that's where I'm at. I'll get it, just have to figure out how. I'll attach some pix next time, which hopefully will be tomorrow!

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:23 pm

Hello Jack. Is the Model A still in the way? :D After close evaluation, do you have the room to spot face the body in preparation for the sealing area under and for the replaceable seat? How much meat do you think you have to deal with to run threads for the replaceable seat? Maybe to allow you to move the spot face down deeper in the body to accommodate the end height of the seat surface and get it as close to the original geometry as possible? I have been thinking about your dilemma and only wish I could look over your shoulder so I could speak in a more educated manner. How is the original needle attached to the seat?
Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:47 am

Howdy Al, damn it! I wrote a big story last night about how things were going, attached a couple of pix, and lost the damn thing somehow! :evil: So, here goes again. Now if I can remember what I said last time... To answer your questions, yup, the Model A is still here. I haven't had much time to work on the carb due to it, and having club members stop by with problems/projects for them (and me) to work on. But that's Ok, I enjoy it, and I always seem to learn something new. Now to the carb. The new seat is as low as it can get, without causing another problem, that of having to re-port the fuel inlet. So it's where it's going to be, which is OK, I just have to adjust the attachment at the arm for the needle. Which by the way, hasn't been easy so far. I made a special bolt on my lathe, and I am not a machinist remember, that turned out pretty good. It had to be small enough to fit inside the needle, so I made it #4-40. Pretty small. It also had to have a ball on the upper end so it could swivel to help the needle rest in the seat properly. The needle however, sets inside the seat underneath the arm, and I can't get to it to screw the bolt in to it. Can't hang on to it. So at this point, I'm thinking of just using a stock bolt again, which has a screw driver slot in it, and make it work. I could then screw it in easier, but there is still the problem of holding on to the needle while I attempt it. Another problem here is, the head of the bolt is rough enough that it won't swivel without hanging up on the side of the attachment to the arm. Hard to describe, so I'll post a couple pix. I'm confident I can make it work, I just have to smooth out the roughness of the bolt head, and come up with the proper length of the bolt to get the float at the correct level without having to manipulate the arm very much. Bending it scares me! As to the attachment of the original needle to the seat, it just falls in place. It is attached to the arm by a.... hard to describe, here are some pix for you. The first pic is of the bolt I made on the lathe. Touchy! The lower pic shows the original needle attached to the arm. It fits inside the octagon, which screws into the arm. The original needle had a ball on it at the top also, which raised the needle off of the seat when the float lowered. The seat is under all of that, so it's hard to get at. The new seat is screwed into the area below what you see here, then the needle is placed in the seat, then the bolt has to be screwed into it, with the octagon in place. Yeah, it's tight! So that's where I'm at now. I'll get it, just have to stay after it.
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Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:09 pm

Howdy boys, figured I'd better check in. Haven't had time to work on the carb lately. Hopefully this week. We've got about 3" of snow to deal with now, but that shouldn't slow me down much. I do have some good news, the tin for the body of the Model 38 is getting close! Can't wait for that project to be done! Here's some pix of the wood part. Too bad all of it has to be painted blue, it would look real nice stained. Ok, I'll let you know how things are going as soon as I get back at it.
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alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:37 pm

Nice work Jack. You are quite a craftsman. Is that all ash or have you used oak also?
Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:38 am

Howdy Al, thanks for the compliment, but it wasn't me. I'm more of a steel guy. I've tried to arc a piece of dowel before and it just doesn't work? A friend of mine made the bodies for me. Yes, he did a great job! It's killing him that I have to paint them blue, as was original. He wanted to stain them, which of course would look great, but, it wouldn't be correct! OK, here's the latest. I've spent about 2 weeks working on a Model A generator trying to get it to charge. After spending too much time "fiddling" with it, I finally tore it down completely, blasted and painted everything, tested the armature for leaks/shorts and then put it on the growler, tested the field coils, tested all the wiring for continuity, turned down the commutator due to some pitting, cut the mica, put in new brushes, made sure I had good grounding, put it together following a model a generator repair book, by the letter I might add, and.....nothing. Polarized the cutout, adjusted the 3rd brush, nothing. What am doing wrong? I've worked on this thing for two weeks, called every expert I could think of (we don't have a shop here in town any longer), ordered a DVD from the Diablo A's to see if they had a different idea (it hasn't gotten here yet, been snowing for a week or better), thought about it some more, and I still couldn't come up with an answer. I decided to talk to the fellow who made the DVD, so I called and told him of my dilemma, and he couldn't give me a definitive answer. He gave me a couple of things to try, but no change. I called him back and talked for a bit, then I thought "I wonder if it makes a difference which way the coil leads are attached?" In other words, does it matter which one is attached to ground and which one is attached to a brush? He said he didn't know. He'd have to do some research. After we hung up, I switched the wires, and, away she went! Charged like a new one! So, we all learned a lesson! Never give up, for one thing! I knew I'd get it, just had to stay after it. Being a Seabee, I've always kept the "Can Do!" attitude in my little brain! And now, back to the carb! I am definitely going to work on it today, unless I have to crawl on the tractor to plow snow. It's been snowing here for about 6 hours, and more coming, so I'm sure I'll be out there before too long..... and me with a sore throat. OK, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:31 am

Good Morning Jack, Nice thinking on the Model A generator. It is rewarding when something comes together like it is supposed to. Now for your carburetor issue. I am anxious to hear how your solve/resolve the needle and seat issue. I am also on to a Carter BB-1, (late series 289SD) carburetor rebuild. I am getting ready to install this latest carburetor onto my Locomobile. I have messed around and messed around with the earlier and smaller series all cast iron BB-1, designed for a CID up to about 280. I was not aware of the larger series BB-1 (289 SD) which is actually designed for my exact CID engine of about 300 CID. This carburetor designed to push the float up to close the fuel flow, then as the bowl empties, and the float drops, the flow is reestablished. I am going to try a new style and improved needle and seat in this rebuild. This new design is built by "Daytona Parts Company" and is flat faced. It does not use a typical needle and seat. I will let you know how that turns out for my engine. Oh yeah, the snow you got we also had a nice dose of it last night! I have already been out and shoveled the sidewalk as we are expecting company today. More on your carb. rebuild as you get it sorted out please......
Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:49 pm

Howdy Al, well, after 3 hours of plowing snow, we got about a 1' today, I proceeded to the shop to work on the carb. As you can see by the pictures, I'm working with some small parts! The first pic is of the #4x40 bolt I am using to hold the needle to the float arm. The bolt is screwed into the needle. The second pic is of the baling wire I flattened to use as a wedge to put between the needle and the needle seat housing when it is installed. The wire will hold the seat in place while I tighten the screw. The third pic is of the wire being placed between the needle and the housing. This has to be done with everything in place, and there is virtually no room to get anything in there other than the wire. The fourth pic is of the layout of the 5 components that have to be assembled in place. Not an easy task! The last pic is of me putting it all together. The float of course has to be attached to the float arm afterword. After all was in place I checked the float level and it had to be raised about 1/8" at the connection with the float arm. So, it all comes apart again, then I began to heat the arm and...the part that connects to the float fell off! Damn! I didn't even touch it! just began to heat it... I figured it was probably cracked already. So, I took it to my local machine shop and my good buddy is going to silver solder it back on. I'll get it back tomorrow and see how she fits. I'll keep you posted! Sorry about being out of focus!
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alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:03 pm

Good Work Jack. You are going to have a "no leak" carburetor! Keep up the good work!
Al

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:52 am

Thanks Al, bad cold today, and probably for the rest of the week. Damn! Won't be doing much today...

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:39 am

Good Morning Jack, My Tip for the day is for you to lay low and get past the "bug". This is a good time for you to spend some time contemplating your remedy and how to get your carb. back together and in better form that when it was new! You have a "cold" and over here it is "cold". I have some outside work to do that is pushing me, but it just will not happen today. So my tip for me for the day is to set at the desk and get my income taxes finished up and ready to go to the CPA. Not much fun!
Al

Plumbline
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:26 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Plumbline » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:48 pm

Jack, hope you don't mind if i make a few comments. First, I have heartily enjoyed following these posts this year. Secondly, I wish we could get many more folks using the forums, just don't know exactly how to accomplish that. Thirdly, I envy you very clean shop. And finally, I admire your craftsmanship. Don Plumb

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:13 pm

Howdy Don, again, I didn't make the body, I'm not a wood worker by any means. I can build big stuff; shop, barn, etc., but not as intricate as those bodies! My friend David King made them for me, he's very meticulous! Hope you and Sharon are doing well in this weather. Yes, I wish more people would use the forum! That is one reason I never did use it before Al's suggestion of posting my progress, nobody looked at it. I should write an article for the Gazette and do some prodding! See you in April!

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:02 am

Hello Jack and Don, I share the thought that it would be more well received if more fellows would choose to network on this forum. An open conversation with others, (this forum) does invigorate us to think out loud and receive advice that is not only helpful to we personally but to others who read and can in turn share thoughts. I also am a serious advocate of increasing the usage of the HCCA forums, after all, we are the resident experts on brass era and horseless carriages. I am most anxious to see the success that is just around the corner for you Jack. You can then help others to correct leaking carburetors in the future. My tip for the day, is for those willing, keep up a good motion like Jack is doing for his carburetor repair and other active posters on this forum. We can certainly help keep interest alive if we do that very thing, support each other on this HCCA forum. :D
Al

alsfarms
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:10 am

Jack, I have one other compliment for you. In your taking close-up pictures, of small details, you are patient and wait until your picture taking device is fully in focus! Good for you! As a "tip", I would encourage other posters to be patient and share the best quality pictures available as it is easier for us to help, if we can see clearly. Depending upon circumstances, sometimes our devices have a dang mind of their own and have to be encouraged to take good clear pictures. Jack you are successful with that.
Al

jeff deringer
Posts: 77
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:56 pm
Location: Camas, Wa

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by jeff deringer » Wed Feb 13, 2019 3:01 pm

Jack wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:13 pm
Howdy Don, again, I didn't make the body, I'm not a wood worker by any means. I can build big stuff; shop, barn, etc., but not as intricate as those bodies! My friend David King made them for me, he's very meticulous! Hope you and Sharon are doing well in this weather. Yes, I wish more people would use the forum! That is one reason I never did use it before Al's suggestion of posting my progress, nobody looked at it. I should write an article for the Gazette and do some prodding! See you in April!
I think more people look at it than some think, but sadly, very few post. Just my $.02!

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