1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Get help and help others restore and enjoy driving/touring in horseless carriages
F12MAC
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: canada

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by F12MAC » Sun Feb 14, 2021 7:04 am

Have you checked your oil resvoir to see if it will hold vacuum ? Cheers pete

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:22 am

Yes, and I don't think that it is holding vacuum. If I fill it, the level slowly drops until it is empty about a half hour later. I fabricated and installed new drain valves with stand pipes, they no longer leak oil. The filler plug had a stack of three good looking fiber gaskets, but Daryl Kemerer told me that the cap should push and hold down the pushrod to the lower valve, so I removed two of the gaskets so that the cap would screw down further. I haven't removed the sight glass yet to see the condition of its end gaskets. The bottom valve and feed pipe fittings don't leak oil. Are there other locations I should check?
Attachments
IMG_7975.JPG
IMG_8170.JPG
IMG_8171.JPG
IMG_8169.JPG

F12MAC
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: canada

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by F12MAC » Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:58 am

On my EMF that I just took apart to chase oil leaks,I found that under the sight glass outer brass cap there was another retainer with a screwdriver slot that has a gasket between it and the glass.I found that thread sealant was required on it for me to hold vacuum.Also make sure the cap that pushes the oil plunger down has a gasket of proper thickness,what I mean by that is thin enough to open the plunger but thick enough to seal,my gasket was too thin and the cap would tighten on the rod instead of the gasket surface of the cap and crankcase. Hope this helps,I used a vacuum pump like for checking choke pull offs and dist but or advances. Cheers pete ps took me a couple days to get it correct don,t give up

F12MAC
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: canada

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by F12MAC » Mon Feb 15, 2021 5:07 am

Just thought rereading your last post only the tank holds vacuum. So that includes just the tank that holds oil not the crankcase itself. Also remove the cap underneath that holds the brass piping for the oil feed,when removed there will be a spring and the rod with a leather valve ,make sure the leather is in good shape so it will not leak pete

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:58 am

Thanks for the tips! Yes, Daryl also told me that only the reservoir tank is under vacuum, not the engine sump. It should only send oil to the sump if the sump level drops and exposes the holes of the two feed pipes. Seems like this would happen to some degree as soon as the engine starts, since oil will start splashing around the engine parts, dropping the level in the sump.

I did remove and flush the engine sump breather on the LH side of the engine, it was clear. I'll check to make sure that the the fill cap is clamped tight and not being held up by the rod. Maybe that's why the cap had three gaskets on it when I got the car. I'll also check the leather seal on the bottom valve and the seals for the sight glass.

Update - the fill cap appears to seal tightly with only one gasket, it does not appear to be held up by the lower valve rod. I removed the outer slotted cap for the sight glass, it appears to have a groove under the top for an O-ring, should there be an O-ring there? I saw but did not remove the sight glass inner slotted cap or the lower valve yet to inspect the leather seal.

User avatar
alsfarms
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:27 am

What is your latest update?
Al

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:47 pm

I nearly have the throttle linkage sorted out, just making some refinements. Also working on the gaskets that seal the oil reservoir. The level still drops, but not as fast as before, so I'm making progress.

User avatar
alsfarms
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:11 am

What fun it is. You will have success for sure just keep eliminating all possible leak points.
Al

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:49 am

I spent yesterday running a new 1/4 inch steel fuel line to the carburetor. The sediment bulb on my tank is hand made, but serviceable. The line is clamped to the frame in two locations, so it is plenty secure. I installed a second shut off valve next to the carb so that I can shut off the gas without crawling under the car.

I removed and cleaned the oil sight gage on the reserve tank and replaced the worn out leather gaskets with new, square cross section O-rings. I also tightened the two packing nuts on the oil feed pipes. I'll add some oil to the reserve tank and see if it will hold vacuum now. :)
Attachments
IMG_8178.JPG
IMG_8179.JPG
IMG_8180.JPG
IMG_8181.JPG
IMG_8169.JPG

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:10 am

Success! My reserve oil tank holds vacuum now. I removed and cleaned the sight glass and installed new seals on the top and bottom of the glass. I also tightened the packing nuts on the two oil tubes that feed reserve oil into the engine sump.

My new upholstery kit is on its way from Classtique, it should arrive the first week in March. I went with "distressed" looking leather to better match the patina of the rest of the car. I'll be installing it myself, I have some prior experience from doing my 1924 Model T Ford. :)

User avatar
alsfarms
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Sun Feb 28, 2021 3:18 pm

Great work and update. You are edging close to a run test!
Al

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:18 am

I stumbled upon a page on the web that makes me think that my car was used as a "prop" in the HBO series "Boardwalk Empire" several years ago. Except for the color of the top bows, gas tank, and radiator shell, the color scheme matches my car. Also, my car came with two home-made cross braces to help hold the top up, just like the ones in the pictures. Like a dummy, I sent those braces back to Dragone because I was convinced that they didn't go with the car. I sent Dragone an email yesterday asking them to send them back to me if they still have them.

https://www.imcdb.org/v613013.html

Update - Dragons confirmed that my car is indeed the one in "Boardwalk Empire". They are also sending back the braces. :)
Attachments
i613013.jpg
imgp2756.jpg
imgp2756.jpg (86.2 KiB) Viewed 2976 times
picture025.jpg
picture025.jpg (86.53 KiB) Viewed 2976 times

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Wed Mar 03, 2021 4:45 am

I received the new upholstery kit from Classtique yesterday. I had sent them the old upholstery for patterns, and I asked that they return the old upholstery with the new in case I needed them for reference. The new kit has the same mix of leather and other material that the originals had. It came with fasteners and a generous supply of extra padding and material.

Right now everything is laid out for inventory and development of a plan for installation. I plan to install the kit myself, I have some experience from doing the upholstery and top on my 1924 Model T Ford.
Attachments
IMG_8185.JPG
IMG_8186.JPG
IMG_8184.JPG

15max
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:32 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by 15max » Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:22 pm

They are wonderful for doing that. It looks like a great job.

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:41 am

While I work up the courage to start installing the upholstery, I spent yesterday bending, flaring, soldering, and installing the brass tubing and red rubber hoses for the acetylene headlights. I got the 1/4" brass pipe, the tee, and the red rubber hose from McMaster Carr. The tee I bought was too big (it was sized for 1/4" pipe vs. 1/4" tube), so I ordered the correct tee and will re-solder the lines when it arrives. At least now all the tubing is cut to the correct lengths and shaped, so it will be easy to remove it and re-solder when the correct tee shows up.
Attachments
IMG_0200.JPG
IMG_0201.JPG
IMG_0202.JPG

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:08 am

I have started installing the seat back upholstery kit from Classtique. I was worried about the stability of the three wimpy backrest springs, so I tacked a piece of canvas to the top and bottom of the backrest frame and sewed the tops of the springs to the canvas so that they wouldn't fold over or move around while I was manipulating the upholstery.

I got the seat back centered and tacked it along the bottom, then pulled it forward and up to tighten it and lay it properly against the springs. Next, I will need to tack the center portion of the foundation material to the upper rail, then stuff the upper diamonds and tack the center portion of the outer material to the rail. Classtique supplied plenty of extra cotton stuffing.

There seems to be a lot of extra material on the sides, which probably means I need to pull the cover further back in the corners. I'll continue to pick away at it over the next week or so. :)
Attachments
IMG_8187.JPG
IMG_8188.JPG
IMG_8192.JPG
IMG_8195.JPG
IMG_8196.JPG

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:20 am

Yesterday I finished stuffing and tacking the center rear and sides of the backrest. All that is left to do is the hardest part, the corners, then trim welt.

After that, I'll start on the seat cushion. :)
Attachments
IMG_8207.JPG
IMG_8206.JPG
IMG_8204.JPG

User avatar
cudaman
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:04 pm

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by cudaman » Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:47 am

Well, I finished up the seat back upholstery yesterday and was so pleased with the results that I went in the basement and fetched the top. I really like how the rear curtain of the top has fittings that slide into tabs on the seat rail, much better than permanently tacking the curtain to the car. Next I need to start on the seat cushion. Many thanks to Elizabeth and Mike at Classtique Upholstery for making such a great seat kit using my originals as patterns! :)
Attachments
finished_seat_back_01.JPG
finished_seat_back_03.JPG
finished_seat_back_04.JPG
top_back_on_3_11_2021_02.JPG
top_back_on_3_11_2021_04.JPG

User avatar
alsfarms
Posts: 551
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by alsfarms » Sat Mar 13, 2021 8:45 am

Nice work! You are getting closer to having a driver.

jeff deringer
Posts: 117
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:56 pm
Location: Camas, Wa

Re: 1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

Post by jeff deringer » Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:57 pm

Looks great! Nice work!

Post Reply