1910 Overland restoration

Get help and help others restore and enjoy driving/touring in horseless carriages
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Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:03 pm

Howdy boys, Al of Alsfarm suggested I start a new thread on my restoration project, a 1910 Model 38 Overland Roadster. I bought the car about 3 years ago from a gentleman in Loma Linda. He had restored the engine and drive train and drove it around his place, and then it sat until I bought it. I have yet to start the engine, mostly because I wanted to use an original mag for it, a Remy type "T". When I bought the car it had a Remy type RL on it, which is what it ran with. I asked several nationally known mag shops if they could repair the "T" I had, and was told by all of them "we don't work on Remy's". What to do? I'll do it myself, I thought. After about a year of gathering the parts, and knowledge from Charley Shaver, I rebuilt it. Looks pretty good to me! However, no spark. I traced what I feel the problem is to the distributor cap, and had my son build me a new one out of Delrin. I'm hoping to test it in the next couple weeks, once I recover from Christmas!

I don't like to make these posts too long, so I'll stop here and let you look over a few pictures of the car and mag. As Al suggested, I'll keep up with this thread and let you know how it's coming along. I wish I lived closer to someone who I could visit in person, but I'm a 200 miles from Portland, 200 miles from Boise, 200 miles from Spokane, 200 miles from Seattle, I'm 200 miles from everywhere!

The first picture is of the frame with the new body being fitted. I am having a gentleman from Eugene make new tin for it. Luckily most of the original metal is still there, but in bad shape.

The 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th are of the cap my son made, along with the original.

The last two are of the Remy type "T" mag.

Thanks guys, I appreciate your knowledge and willingness to share! I'll be tapping into it!

Jack Remillard, Pendleton, OR
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alsfarms
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:19 am

Hello Jack, You should get plenty of tips from those among us that have magneto experience. I do know that the REMY is a different beast and hardly no shop will work on them, (there must be a reason sadly). Please describe what you did as you went about rebuilding your magneto. Were your windings good by test? Could you see any other area where you could potentially have a ground? What is the condition of the varnish on the windings? If you kept a picture record of your rebuild process, post a few here. When you make it run, do a You Tube of it so we can all enjoy.
Al
PS: my father-in-law was raised in Pendelton, my wife still has cousins that live there.

F12MAC
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: canada

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by F12MAC » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:27 pm

Hi there I rebuilt the Remy mag on my buddies 12 McLaughlin Buick.
Did you check the condenser,they have been known to go bad?
Dist cap is a work of art,did your son use a 3D printer?
Keep us posted on your progress,looking good
Cheers Pete

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:38 am

Morning boys, Ok Al, I'll see if I have any pix of when I rebuilt it. I don't think I do, dang it! I had Jim Barrett of Camas Washington help me out over the phone, and we lumbered through it. He also helped me restore one of the coil boxes. Jim is an outstanding guy and knows the old electrical stuff very well! He has many of the old shop tools to rewind coils, test things, and whole bunch of other very early electrical gadgets that I don't quite understand, but I'm sure glad he does. He's been doing this for many years. I spoke with him yesterday and it appears I was hooking up wires in the wrong spot. Damn! I will attack it this morning and see if I get it right. If I remember correctly, all of the "guts" tested OK. The mag I have on the car now is an RL, which is what it ran with, and it may have had a condenser when it was built but Jim feels it is unnecessary, due to the fact there is a condenser in the coil box. Again, I understand little of this, but I am learning! Who are your cousins in Pendleton Al?

Pete, to answer your question, no, Tanner (my son) turned the cap on a lathe. I think he is a very talented kid! Yeah, kid, he's 35. Could you give me a call Pete? Not sure I want to post my number here, how can we get together?

Thanks guys, I'll keep ya posted!

F12MAC
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:29 pm
Location: canada

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by F12MAC » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:09 pm

Hey I’m not hard to find! The only F12 McIntyre in the roster!

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Fri Dec 21, 2018 3:32 pm

Howdy boys! Woo Hoo! I have spark at the plugs! Now I just need to get a little time to do some playing with it. That won't happen until after Xmas, according to the wonderful lady I live with...... Can't wait!

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Fri Dec 21, 2018 9:46 pm

Sorry Al, I didn't take any pictures apparently. Damn it! I should have...….

alsfarms
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:34 am

Hello Jack, I would encourage you to take plenty of pictures, along the way, as you finish the restoration of the Overland. It is just to easy to use a cell phone now days and very easy to build a photo file. It will amaze you how often your peruse your pictures to remind you of one detail or another. Plus, it is very easy to show a picture to this group or elsewhere of a specific point of interest. After the magneto issue, what will be your next focus, that you may be able to glean some tips & advice on?
Al
PS: just a side note, are you a cowboy also as well as an old car guy, seems like Pendleton and cowboy go hand-in-hand!

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:06 am

Very true Al, I was a cowboy many years ago, but traded it in for 4 years in the U.S. Navy Seabees as a mechanic. Had great time. Retired from Pendleton Fire as assistant chief/ fire marshal in ‘04. Great job! And yes, I’m involved with the Pendleton round up. I probably know your cousins.

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:40 pm

Howdy boys, well, after fiddling with the mag for a couple days, I finally have it working as it should, or at least I hope so! I have spark at the correct time, water in the radiator, oil in the oiler, and gas in the little tank I have on the "dash". But, when I turn the gas valve on, the Schebbler Model D leaks. Drip, drip, drip. So, I talked to Stan Howe, and he gave me some pointers on how to fix it. Spent most of today working on it, trying to get the float valve to quit leaking, but, still seeps a little. Stan tells me the D's are known to do this. I lapped the seat, and polished the needle, and it is better, but still seeps just a bit, with just the weight of the needle holding it. In other words, I don't have the float attached. So, I am hopeful that tomorrow after attaching the float, that the needle will hold. I hope...... Here's a few pictures of my carb. testing setup. The first picture is of the bowl and float with gas in it. My son Tanner made the float for me out of Nitrophyl. Don't ask me how he did it! The next one is a closer shot, with no fuel in the bowl. The next two are of me measuring the float for level. Each side measured 9/32 from the top of the float to the top of the bowl. It was off by about 3-4/32 when I first started. Pretty important to have the float symmetrical, side to side. The next picture is of how I attached the carb to my vice, and how I got fuel to the bowl. The valve is pretty important to have, so one doesn't end up with fuel all over the work bench! The last two are of a 1/32" thick lead washer I made, on Stan's suggestion, to help seal the brass fitting at the carb fuel inlet. Not positive it was leaking here, but this should stop it if it was. Ok, I'm hoping I can make some progress tomorrow! Thanks guys!
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Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:57 pm

Howdy boys, success!! No leaks after hooking everything up this morning! I filled and drained the carb several times, with no leaks! Next step, install it and test for leaks there, then, give it a good cranking and hope she fires! Won't have time today, as I am taking part in a Moonshiners Ball, and have to have my Model A pickup on scene for a prop. So, tomorrow is the day! I'll take a video and let you know how it went! Thanks guys!

alsfarms
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:24 am

Now that is one pretty carb. Let us know how it works to get you car running.
Al

Plumbline
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 4:26 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Plumbline » Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:28 pm

Wow! I think I need to take an apprenticeship with you for a few years. Very clever. Don

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Tue Jan 01, 2019 6:24 pm

Howdy boys, well as usual, something is amiss! I hooked up the carb, turned on the fuel, and.... drip, drip, drip. What the (BEEP!)?! Why is it leaking here and not on the bench? OK, off it comes, and back to the bench. Maybe the float level is too high. Ok, make a tool on my lathe to bend it in place. Kinda tight in there, I hope I don't break it.... Measured the distance of the float from the top of the bowl, and I think I need to bend it down about 3/32. This is going to be touchy! Bent it just a hair.... Measured it, what luck, just where I wanted it! Ok, hook up the gas line (we're still at the bench) turn it on, and no leaks. Good. Drain it, do it again, no leaks. Ok, put it back on the car. Turn the gas on, LEAKS! Worse than before! Damnit!! Take it off the car, and back to the bench. What's going on here? As I'm looking at the top of the carb, it hits me! Maybe the attaching bolts are too long, where they come down through the top of the carb, (which is still attached to the intake manifold) and hit the float, keeping the valve open? Maybe? I do some quick measuring and nope, they seem to be missing the float. Dang, thought I had it. Hmmm, still looking at this. I take the piece off of the manifold and put everything together on the bench as it would be on the car, and what do you know, fuel is still flowing when it shouldn't be. Back the bolts out a turn or two, and the flow stops. AH HA!! I was right! I hope anyway. Now to put everything back on the car and see what happens. But, my wife Shari decides, I mean I decide, WE are going to take down the Christmas decorations today! Of course! I can fool around out in the shop anytime! So.... see ya tomorrow guys.

alsfarms
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Tue Jan 01, 2019 7:44 pm

hmmmmm, it appears that you have a "Gremlin" tormenting you! Without being there to assist I am at a loss to determine what might be going on to result in that elusive gasoline leak. While you are asleep tonight you will probably have one of those "epiphany" moments where the solution simply pops into your head. Good luck.
Al

jeff deringer
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:56 pm
Location: Camas, Wa

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by jeff deringer » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:17 pm

When I bought my 15 Overland I wondered, why would anyone put a shutoff valve right behind the carburetor? I learned quickly. That was a Model R Schebler, but same church different pew! I took it apart, inspected, cleaned, fiddled, drank a few beers and put it back together. Still leaked. Repeated above 5 times. Long story after that, but suffice to say I should have just put the valve back on it and left it alone!! Ha ha

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:26 pm

Howdy boys, glad to see I'm not the only one Jeff! I didn't get much time to work on it today, but I did put it back on the car, and, drip, drip, drip. Either something is being warped when I attach it to the manifold, or, who knows what. Just have to keep after it. I'll keep ya posted.

Jack
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 15, 2016 1:07 pm

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Jack » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:41 am

Howdy boys, well as you might imagine, this is pissin' to start me off! Still dripping when I attach the carb to the car. Works fine at the bench. Ok, here's my latest thought. After moving the entire set up to the car (carb, small gas container and tubing) from the bench, and attaching it to the car, the carb flows just like it should. Valve shuts off, and no fuel flows. Ok, great! Hook up the line from the little tank I have on the temporary dash I built to attach the tank and coil box to, turn on the gas, and it leaks at the carb. On this Schebler Model D, there is a small cap above the needle valve (float valve) that can be removed, and one can see the float valve operate. While watching the valve work, using the set up from the bench (small gas container, carb, and tubing) the fuel flows gently until the valve lowers and seats, shutting the fuel off. When I attach the line from the small tank, which is mounted to the temp. dash board, and watch the valve working as fuel flows in, it comes in fairly rapid, faster than when the line is hooked up from the small container on the bench set up. So the only thing that is different is head pressure. The bench set up gas container is only about 10" above the carb, and I might add, about the same height of the original tank, which is mounted under the front seat. The other tank, which is mounted on the temp. dash, is mounted about 24" above the carb, which of course would cause more head pressure. After checking to see how much head pressure gas has, which isn't much per foot, quite a bit less than water, I have determined that this must be the problem. I know from my experience working with fire flow calculations in the Fire Service, any rise in liquid can increase the head pressure. OK. So, this morning I am going to relocate my dash mounted gas tank, and hope that does it. Any of you guys dealt with this issue in the past? I spoke with Stan Howe again about it, and he feels I may be on to something, as it doesn't take much to upset a float valve in these old brass carbs. That's why an electric fuel pump usually doesn't work well, according to Stan. Ok guys, I'll let you know how it goes! Sorry it's taking me so long to figure all this out! But boy I am getting some good lessons!

alsfarms
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by alsfarms » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:01 pm

I had not considered the elevation of your temp. dash tank. Hmmmm, Model A Fords have plenty of head as the tank in in the cowl. The carb. they use is probably engineered to stand up to the additional head pressure. Model T's, until 1926-7, had the tanks much lower. Anxious to hear how this pans out for you.
Al

Bharper
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:25 pm
Location: Keene, NH

Re: 1910 Overland restoration

Post by Bharper » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:03 pm

Hi Jack,

I am following your battle with the persistent leak at the float valve on your Schelber with great interest. I have been enduring a similar struggle with a leaking float valve in the carburetor on my '14 Metz Model 22. The carb was made by the American Watch Tool Company and has a float valve very much like what I see in your Schelber.
I have added a shut off valve to the fuel line just before the carb because I have found no joy in my attempts to cure the leak. Good luck with your project, Bill.

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