Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Get help and help others restore and enjoy driving/touring in horseless carriages
alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:19 pm

Next in line, with the above shown manual fuel pressure air pump, is the dash pressure gauge. This gauge is in place so you can determine if you have enough pressure, (2 lbs.) to move the fuel to the carburetor and not to much pressure to pop the tank. Here is a picture of the Locomobile dash air gauge. Tips or Advice is solicited at this point. I am making a guess that 1/4" tubing is large enough to carry the air pressure to the tank. Do you folks here agree?
Al
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alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Thu Feb 21, 2019 7:52 am

Another feature in an early fuel delivery system that is based on being pressurized is a pressure regulator valve. The attached images show the unit I will be using. It pulls compression pressure from an engine cylinder then has provision to regulate the pressure down to the specified 2 PSI. This unit also has provision for a cooling chamber to reduce the temperature of the compressed air from a cylinder before being pushed in to the fuel delivery system. This circuit pulls a source of cooling water from the automobile radiator cooling system. The unit also has provision to prime the cylinder with gasoline as an aid in starting a cold engine. This unit is a novel bit of early engineering to pressure feed fuel to the carb. If anyone has practical experience setting up one of these systems, I would be ready for your "Tips and Advice", (and experience).
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jeff deringer
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Location: Camas, Wa

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by jeff deringer » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:29 pm

Wow! That's pretty wild innovation for 110 years ago! Impressive.

alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:49 pm

I have just determined that the threads on the bottom of this manual hand pump are not BSPP as I had originally thought. I am going to try an SAE fine threaded bolt and verify just what thread I have as I would sooner use a factory fitting before I break down and custom build a threaded brass hex bushing. Note that the seal is not with the threads, in this application, but is sealed with a gasket in the bottom of the female threads and against a gasket surface on the end of the mating male fitting.
Al
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alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:00 am

I have another problematic obsolete fitting that I will need to modify or fabricate new. I will attach a few pictures and describe my problem. First is the male threads on the back side of the Locomobile air gauge. It is a straight thread that is sealed with a gasket in the bottom of the matching female thread. the picture shows the back side of the gauge and the male straight thread fitting with the needed Tee male flare fitting.
Al
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alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:08 am

Next picture is showing the TEE fitting in place, no typical fitting is available, that I can find, that is straight threaded and seals with a gasket. This Tee fitting is manufactured with a fine 1/4" FNPT and will not work in this application, as is.
Al
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alsfarms
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Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:13 am

Last picture shows the first stage of a modification to bore out the existing 1/4" FNPT and prepare the TEE for a custom machined female threaded bushing to be soldered in place to allow this fitting to be used in this particular application. I will be happy to be able to install the tubing through the Air Pressure gauge.
Al
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alsfarms
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Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:22 am

While being busy messing with the fittings needed to install the fuel delivery pressure system in the Locomobile, I will show a literary acquisition that will be most helpful to my ongoing project. The attached image shows an original 1909 Locomobile Instruction Book. This handbook covers both the Model 30 and 40. The Locomobile Book, as seen in many places on the internet, is a nice piece of literature, but that book is used to promote sales not service and repair of the vehicle. Much very good information is available in this Instruction Book. I will try to post a few of the page, from this Handbook as the project moves along.
Al
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alsfarms
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Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:47 pm

The pressurized fuel delivery system, used on the Locomobile, requires the use of two 1/4" brass check valves. One is used to allow the manual pump to pull outside air into the pump barrel, that check valve #1 is open. The second check valve #2 is used to close and stop the pressure flow from the fuel tank while the manual pump is pulling in fresh air. Then when the pump handle is pushed down the #1 check valve closes and stops the air flow back to atmosphere and the second check valve #2 opens to allow the pressure to be pumped into the tank. This will work nicely, but, I need to open up the check valves and replace the stiff springs with one that will cycle in a much lower working PSI. More on that later. Here are the check valves.
Al
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alsfarms
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Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:02 pm

Here is the 1/4 inch brass check valve opened up. You can see the SS ball that controls the flow, the tension spring is in the middle and the opposite end housing. I need to locate a lighter tension spring for my 2 PSI application.
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pauljac
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:32 am

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by pauljac » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:18 am

Please provide the OAL, wire dia, spring OD, total number of coils and I will look through my collection of springs.

alsfarms
Posts: 316
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Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:28 pm

Hello Paul, Thanks for taking the time to lend a helping hand on this little check valve dilemma I have. I am more concerned about the check valve that opens to allow air into the manual pump chamber, as it needs to lift as the handle is raised on the manual pump. The second check valve will have the compression force from the hand pump, moving down, to open and allow the pressure to the fuel tank. I will get the information, you requested, over to you later.
Al

alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:01 pm

Hello Paul, Here are the specifications for the spring that came in the check valve. I will attach a couple of images.
Number of coils: 6
Height: 3/4"
Wire OD: .040
Coil OD: 3/8"
Al
Attachments
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alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
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Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:04 pm

Hello Paul, Thanks again for your being willing to see if you have any springs that may work better for my application. Anyone else with "Tips" or "Advice", your comments are welcome. Here is a second picture.
Al
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pauljac
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:32 am

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by pauljac » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:08 pm

I found a spring that may work. It has the 6 coils, .750 OAL, .035 wire and .365 OD. Do you just need one?

alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:09 pm

Hello Paul, I would like to have two. That way if the lower operating pressure of the check valve #2 may also need to have a release pressure change I can try the .035 spring in that check valve also. You can contact me direct at: alsfarms@hotmail.com
Al

alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:12 pm

Hello Paul, Thanks so much for the springs! I do appreciate your help. You are putting a big :D on my face! I will post here how the new springs behave in the check valves.
Al

alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:32 pm

While I am busy adjusting and completing the fuel delivery system, I will show you an early design, all brass fuel line sediment bowl. This piece will be installed in the actual fuel supply line to the carburetor. Originally, this sediment bowl was nickle plated, I will remove the plating and polish the brass for show and better esthetics for the pre 1915 era. Have any of you seen a similar sediment bowl before? This unit does not have an inlet arrow so I am assuming that the inlet port is the high port (has the 90 deg. elbow installed) and the discharge will be the lower port that comes out the side of the sump bowl portion of the assembly. Any "Tips or Advice" is appreciated.
Al
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alsfarms
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Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:00 am

While I continue to fiddle with the fuel deliver system, I thought I would post a picture of the clock for this Locomobile. The purpose for this posting is to solicit a reference to a good "Clock Doctor" to make this one run again. (I actually think it may just need a cleaning and oiling). Advice or Tips on a good clock repair shop is appreciated.
Al
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alsfarms
Posts: 316
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:29 pm
Location: Deseret, Utah

Re: Rebuild Improvements for Reliability 1909 Locomobile

Post by alsfarms » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:55 am

The clock is off to the repair shop, more on that subject later. I am hopeful that nothing serious is found!
Al

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