Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Find answers to all of your automotive questions here
Post Reply
Pat Farrell
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:09 pm

Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by Pat Farrell » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:36 am

The valve lash on our 1909 Kissel Kar ranges from 0.012" to 0.026". It is a 4 cylinder F head 50 H.P. engine. I have read the directions on setting the valve lash and it is spelled out that valves are set to open at a certain degree of the crankshaft rotation for each valve. Rather than putting a degree wheel on the crankshaft, what would happen if the valves were set with feeler gauge like they did back in the fifties? The 1953 Dodge flat head six valves were set at 0.010" valve lash. What is the best choice here for simplicity, performance, and durability?
1909 Kissel Kar D10 July 2018 Tour.JPG

Locomobile
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:55 am
Location: Dearborn, Mi

Re: Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by Locomobile » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:42 pm

Hi Pat,

I'm not fully understanding your question, but that is how we always set cold lash for valves, roll it over to low cam and set the gap. Intake is usually less clearance as it doesn't get as hot as the exhaust valve, i.e. cooler temperatures, less thermal elongation of components. Ideally, on a hot engine, the valve noise should be minimal, if it's still clattering, take it up a few thou at a time until it's near quiet.

Hope you're doing well, Ron (IronChief)
The car that steams is the car of your dreams Locomobile advertising slogan

Pat Farrell
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by Pat Farrell » Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:22 pm

Ron, In reading the 1909 manual for setting the valves on engines of that era, the valves are not supposed to start opening until an establish degree of the crankshaft for that valve. Once the degree of rotation is found for that one valve on the scale by rotating the crankshaft, the valve tapped is then adjusted to where that valve just starts to open or has just achieved zero valve lash. That seems to be a lot of foolishness, to me. Just wanting to know if I can use our modern methods of setting valves and have no damage or loss of performance by doing it that way. I am about to do it because my present valve lash is over 0.025" on some of the valves and that is excessive. With less valve lash, the valve would then have a little more opening duration while being open and that could add to higher speed performance. I looked in my Dykes Automobile Encyclopedia 1914 and on page 440, they generalized the adjusting of valves. Dykes said "a folded business card is about the right valve clearance". They also related that "from between 1 - 64 to 1-32 inch would be the proper space between the ends of the push rods and valve stems." 1/64" is about 0.0157". By the 1918 Dykes, they then listed the normal valve clearance of most engines at 0.003 to 0.005". I guess I will dive in and adjust the valves the modern way or to about 0.005" for intake and 0.007 for exhaust.. I will forget using the degree wheel as used in 1909.

Locomobile
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:55 am
Location: Dearborn, Mi

Re: Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by Locomobile » Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:59 pm

Pat,

Oh ok, I am unfamiliar with that particular technique. What I remember, it's been a long time since I messed with solid lifters, but we put a breaker bar and socket on the crankshaft and then rocked the engine around until the valve had the most clearance (TDC on that cylinder) and set the clearance at that point and did each the same way.

We used to set valves, if we didn't know the specified cold lash, at .010 on the intake and .014 on the exhaust, same as a Ford flathead. It was an average setting. Double folded business card? I loved those old specs, dime on the plugs, matchbook on the points :)

Oh course hydraulic lifters did away with all that.

-Ron
The car that steams is the car of your dreams Locomobile advertising slogan

Pat Farrell
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:09 pm

Re: Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by Pat Farrell » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:40 pm

Just to be safe, I will set our 1909 Kissel Kar's valve lash at 10 and 10. The car runs real cool and any more valve lash than that would be wasted valve lift. Thank you Ron for chiming in. Our Stanley steamers are fun too. Been into those for 33 years and I have most all of the answers for them. We have only owned the 1909 Kissel Kar for four years and this is the first time that I have had to adjust the valves. SSsssteamer

kwtownsend
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:31 pm
Location: Gresham, Orygun

Re: Valve lash on 1909 Kissel Kar

Post by kwtownsend » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:58 pm

Pat
On my Model Ts I think intake is about 10 thou and exhaust is about 12. I'm sure that your KisselKar runs cooler than a Model T.
Enjoyed touring with you this summer.
Keith

Post Reply