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1912 Flanders 20 Spruce Up - Any Interest?

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Mark Strange
Trusted Member

Well, a friend came over earlier this week to help start the Flanders for the first time.  We didn't get very far, the carburetor floods horribly.  We took the carb apart and lowered the float level, but that didn't have any effect.  The float moves freely when the float bowl is off and the needle seals well when I do the "sucking on the fuel inlet" test.

My current theory is that the float is rubbing somewhere on the inside of the float bowl, keeping it from rising and closing the needle valve.  With cooler weather closing in, it may be a while before I'm ready for another attempt.  There's no rush.  🙂

carb 08
nos carb01
nos carg02

 

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Topic starter Posted : November 10, 2021 2:02 pm
Alan Dewsnup
Honorable Member

Mark, Here is just a thought and I am sure you have already considered this....is your float buoyant enough to float on gasoline?  You are right in your assumption.  Something must be inhibiting the proper action of the float/needle and seat arrangement.  Do you have a real good mating between the needle and seat?  I like the looks of your brass carb. and hope you get this dilemma all sorted out soon.  We are anxious to hear a first run.

Al

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Posted : November 10, 2021 2:44 pm
Mark Strange
Trusted Member

Good news, Daryl Kemerer suggested that I look to see if the float "tickler" was keeping the float from rising, and sure enough, it was the culprit.  So, I put a washer under the tickler assembly to space it up and the float now rises and shuts off the fuel like it should.

 

Now I'm working on sorting out the ignition.  I have no spark, either on battery or magneto.  The system is a Splitdorf "dual" system with a Splitdorf Model F low tension magneto and a coil box on the dash.  The coil box is freshly rebuilt by R.V. Anderson and I've doublechecked the wiring to and from the box.  I have also verified that the magneto points are opening and closing like they should.  Here is a link to a video of me and a friend attempting to start the car (unsuccessfully).

 

 

Talking to Daryl, it appears that my magneto has a short black jumper wire on it that goes from inside the magneto case to the ground terminal that his magneto doesn't have.  I'm going to try disconnecting that jumper and taping it back so that it can't make contact with anything, then try again.  Maybe the jumper was some previous owner's attempt at an anti-theft device.

scan0004a
IMG 9252
pre start02
pre start04
IMG 8127

 

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Topic starter Posted : November 14, 2021 12:10 pm
Mark Strange
Trusted Member

Update - it turns out the short black jumper wire on the magneto does belong there.  It runs from one corner of the condenser unit to terminal 2 on the magneto (the points).  Daryl looked at the magnetos on his cars again and one of them does have the jumper (two are a slightly different configuration and do not have a jumper).  Daryl tells me that he has successfully started and run that car with the jumper on the magneto, so it can work that way.

The troubleshooting continues....

 

20211114 164615a
20211114 164701a

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : November 15, 2021 12:10 pm
Peter Mc Intyre
Trusted Member

Painful to watch. We have all been there. Cheers pete

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Posted : November 15, 2021 7:53 pm
Peter Findlay
Eminent Member

Yes, we all know that experience of stubborn cranking even though the results are just not happening.  I feel your exhaustion.

 

Maybe it's time to trace the current from the battery through the switch and coils to see where it's disappearing? 

 

Peter

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Posted : November 16, 2021 3:35 am
Alan Dewsnup
Honorable Member

Do you have a hot enough spark to make you bite your tongue, good?  Fuel figured out, good?  Good mixture of fuel and air, good?  Next is that everything is delivered at the correct time, good?  You will get there....

Al

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Posted : November 18, 2021 4:25 pm
Mark Strange
Trusted Member

Success!  After some troubleshooting of the wiring and coil box switch, my friend and I were able to start the Flanders 20 for the first time today!  The engine runs well on both battery and magneto.  The car didn't overheat and I was able to actuate the clutch and run the transaxle through all three forward gears and reverse.  Here is a link to the Youtube video:

 

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Topic starter Posted : November 25, 2021 2:28 am
Peter Findlay
Eminent Member

Well done!  It's always such a great feeling to hear it run that first time.  And it sounds good!  Thanks for sharing the video.

Peter

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Posted : November 25, 2021 2:55 am
Alan Dewsnup
Honorable Member

What a nice finish to a very systematic approach to waking up an antique automobile from hibernation.  I certainly liked the exuberation when you switched to run on mag and there was not even a flutter!  Good work and may you be blessed with more of the same success..  Next is a You Tube of you driving down the road!

Al

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Posted : November 25, 2021 3:33 am
Peter Mc Intyre
Trusted Member

Great sounds good. Pete

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Posted : November 25, 2021 11:46 am
Mark Strange
Trusted Member

Now working on the throttle linkage - a previous owner had ditched the OEM Flanders carb and installed a Rayfield L2 carb (which is available if anyone wants it, PM me with your offer).  What I had on the car for the first start was close to the original factory setup, but not quite (I couldn't get full travel from Idle to wide open at the carb butterfly).  I have some modern aftermarket linkage pieces on the way, hopefully with all of that I can come up with something that gives full travel without binding.  Here are pictures of the Rayfield L2 that I removed, along with the near-NOS original Flanders carb from Hershey that is now installed.

rayfield carb 01
nos carb01
nos carb02
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Topic starter Posted : November 28, 2021 1:07 pm
Alan Dewsnup
Honorable Member

What is the ID of the venturi and mounting flange ID?

Al

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Posted : November 29, 2021 5:10 pm
Mark Strange
Trusted Member

I assume you're asking about the Rayfield L2 carb?  I can't get access to the venturi to measure its diameter, but the hole size at the mounting flange is 1 1/8 inches.  The two mounting bolts on the flange are spaced 2 1/4 inches apart.  Hope this helps.  🙂

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Topic starter Posted : November 29, 2021 5:28 pm
Alan Dewsnup
Honorable Member

The Rayfield is the carb. that shows still mounted?  Up draft, what is the Displacement of your Flanders?  What vintage engine would this carb. be suitable for?  I am looking at potential installation on a 1904 5" x 5" twin cylinder engine.

Al

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Posted : November 29, 2021 6:51 pm
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